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Okletsgo podcast hosts must ‘learn and grow’ from criticisms over misogynistic comments: Shanmugam

SINGAPORE — Law and Home Affairs Minister K Shanmugam said on Tuesday (June 16) that he hopes the three men behind the popular podcast Okletsgo “learn and grow” from criticisms over misogynistic remarks they made on their show.

(From left) Mr Dzar Ismail, 34, Mr Raja Razie, 38, and Mr Dyn Noorahim, 38, the people behind the local podcast Okletsgo.

(From left) Mr Dzar Ismail, 34, Mr Raja Razie, 38, and Mr Dyn Noorahim, 38, the people behind the local podcast Okletsgo.

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Nabilah Awang, Latasha Seow

SINGAPORE — Law and Home Affairs Minister K Shanmugam said on Tuesday (June 16) that he hopes the three men behind the popular podcast Okletsgo “learn and grow” from criticisms over misogynistic remarks they made on their show.

Mr Shanmugam added that the trio’s remarks went “beyond poor taste” and were “plain wrong”. 

The minister took to Facebook to answer questions about his position on women’s rights, as he had taken part in the latest episode of the local podcast broadcast on Tuesday.

Mr Shanmugam said the brouhaha over the trio’s comments this past week was an opportunity for hard but necessary conversations. “Okletsgo will need to play its part, to build bridges. I hope they learn, and grow from this,” he said.

Mr Shanmugam said that his position on women's rights would be known to those who have followed his speeches and changes to laws that his ministries have made. Over the years, for instance, laws have been passed to give women more protection and make it easier for them to access the courts for family matters, he added.  

The hosts of the podcast had invited Mr Shanmugam to feature in an episode on Singapore’s anti-fake-news law, the Protection from Online Falsehoods and Manipulation Act, as well as the Maintenance of Religious Harmony Act, which provides for powers to maintain religious harmony in Singapore.

“I agreed because it is important to let people know of the thinking behind these laws,” he said. 

It was only after the interview that he received feedback about the podcast hosts objectifying women and using unacceptable language.

Okletsgo is helmed by former Ria 89.7 radio deejays Dzar Ismail, 34, Dyn Norahim, 38, and Raja Razie, 38. It has more than 100,000 listeners on Spotify, making it the most popular local podcast.

The backlash against the trio started with a viral tweet on June 9 by Twitter user anygalien, who said the hosts reminded her of the Malay men in her life who “casually dehumanise and sexualise women and brush it off as jokes”.

The tweet drew a swift outpouring of support from other social media users, who cited examples of offensive remarks that have been made by the hosts over the years. In one episode, for example, one of them said he could not take his eyes off the cleavage of a transgender woman who had been invited on the podcast to talk about her activism work in Project X, an organisation that champions the rights of sex workers.

Weighing in on Monday, President Halimah Yacob chided the hosts for their offensive, humiliating and misogynistic remarks, calling on the three men to “sincerely and humbly apologise to all women”. 

Hours later, the trio said on Facebook that they were “truly sorry” that it took them this long to realise the extent of the hurt they had caused.

In response to TODAY’s queries on Tuesday, the Infocomm Media Development Authority (IMDA) said that it has received feedback from the public that certain Okletsgo podcasts contained disrespectful comments towards women.

It added that all internet content providers in Singapore are regulated through the Broadcasting Class Licence, and must abide by licensing conditions and the internet code of practice.

The authority noted that Okletsgo had acknowledged and apologised for its comments.

“IMDA has notified Okletsgo that as an internet content provider, it must ensure that its service does not contain offensive or derogatory content that would be prohibited under the internet code of practice, which Okletsgo has also acknowledged,” IMDA said.  

WHAT OTHER MPs SAID 

In the midst of the public backlash, several Members of Parliament (MPs) also chimed in on the issue.

Several among them had been featured in the podcast before, including Environment and Water Resources Minister Masagos Zulkifli and Parliament Secretary for Home Affairs Amrin Amin.

While the MPs acknowledged the hosts’ apology, they stressed that misogyny had no place in Singapore society. 

In a Facebook post on Monday, Mr Masagos said: “As influential personalities in media, it is imperative that they hold themselves to high standards of conduct, and convey values that are aligned with what we stand for as a community.”

Also writing on Monday, Mr Amrin noted the importance of building a conducive culture that supports women, and added that jokes can hurt, enforce stereotypes or mislead people into thinking that it is okay to objectify women. 

Associate Professor Muhammad Faishal Ibrahim, Senior Parliamentary Secretary for Social and Family Development, said on Tuesday that everyone has a part to play in tackling "deep-rooted issues" surrounding gender stereotypes about women. “Sexist and degrading language towards women should not be taken lightly or condoned,” he said. 

Other politicians who have featured in Okletsgo's podcasts include Deputy Prime Minister Heng Swee Keat and Dr Mohamad Maliki Osman, Senior Minister of State for Defence and Foreign Affairs.

HOSTS 'NEED NEW APPROACH TOWARDS CRITICAL ISSUES' 

Organisations that have funded or engaged Okletsgo as part of their public education efforts have also set out their positions on the saga. 

The Health Promotion Board (HPB) said in response to TODAY’s queries that it had engaged Okletsgo for a one-off project in May on staying healthy during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan and Hari Raya.

“This engagement was made after reviewing (Okletsgo’s) ability to deliver healthy living content provided by HPB. Each episode was reviewed by HPB before it was released publicly,” said a spokesperson.

The project ended on May 27 with no further engagement planned. 

HPB added that it believes in the need to be responsible and sensitive, and will approach public education efforts with “sensitivity and care”.

Non-profit organisation Nur Insan, which has sponsored religious content on Okletsgo, said that some parents of students in its madrasah, or Islamic school, programmes have been approached by their friends, asking them to withdraw their children because of the organisation's association with Okletsgo.

“This is a deeply concerning issue. We understand the sentiments in the current climate. However, we urge the community to refrain from allowing emotions to cloud our perspectives.

“Let us not demean the efforts and question the niat (intention) of the asatizah (religious teachers) and volunteers toiling behind the scenes,” Nur Insan said. 

Its president Muhammad Faaris Ameerjan told TODAY that so far, none of the students has pulled out.

“We did find some of the remarks (made by the Okletsgo hosts) disturbing, and privately, we have advised and talked to them. They were very receptive to our advice,” he said. 

Mr Faaris hopes Okletsgo will change its approach towards critical issues and tone down its content. 

Asked if Nur Insan would continue to fund Okletsgo’s programmes, he said the organisation strives to reach different sectors of the community, so it has been partnering various organisations on multiple platforms. 

“Right now, there are no plans for any (further) engagement (with Okletsgo) yet. For now, let us give them some time to repackage their content,” Mr Faaris said.  

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