SINGAPORE — The Hush Podcast, hosted by three radio deejays — Yes 933's Hazelle Teo, Ria 89.7FM's Azura Goh and 987FM's Germaine Leonora Tan — has found itself in the spotlight after a recent episode titled: Is cheating in relationships ever justified?

Released on Tuesday (Nov 8) on YouTube and podcast platforms, the 36-minute episode addresses cheating, whether emotional or physical, while in a monogamous relationship.

The Mediacorp deejays first touch on possible reasons for cheating — a lack of connection, conditions such as sex addiction, unresolved childhood issues — as well as what constitutes cheating.

Then, in a now-infamous video excerpt that was uploaded on TikTok by Clarity, the digital content brand behind the podcast, Germaine asks: "Do you girls think cheating is ever justifiable or acceptable?"

The hosts then agree that while cheating is wrong, "the reasons for it may be justifiable".

"Because you can't get love from (a toxic) relationship," explains Hazelle. "And that's why you turn to other means."

Sharing about friends who have been involved with married men, Germaine continues: "The thing is that (the married men) are not happy in that situation. Sometimes they even have kids, you know, it happens.

"And as a friend, I would never judge my friend... for entering into a situation like that.

"I think no one is above this, like, moral high ground."

This is why, she adds, she felt people were "a bit harsh" on Ned Fulmer — who was dropped from comedy quartet The Try Guys in September this year after he was found to have had an extramarital affair with an employee.

The one-minute excerpt, posted by Clarity on Wednesday (Nov 9), caused quite an uproar on TikTok before it was taken down on Thursday. For the curious, a full transcript of the video clip is included at the end of this article.

Social media users were quick to hit back at the hosts' opinions, stating that cheating cannot be justified.

In a statement on Friday night, Mediacorp said that it is sorry that the episode has caused offence, adding that the podcast seeks to provide a safe space for women-related topics and there was no intention of cordoning or justifying cheating.

CHEATING IS 'NEVER JUSTIFIABLE'

Some online users who disagreed with the podcast hosts created their own Stitch videos on TikTok to debate the original clip.

In one such video by TikTok user "vanillabbt" with 19,500 views, she quips: "Sis, I don't think y'all understand the term 'justifiable' because there's nothing to justify about cheating, even if it's in a loveless relationship.

"(Germaine says) 'You know, cheating might not be morally right' — like, no, sis. I'mma stop you right there. Cheating IS not morally right.

"Which is why they don't let you cheat, not even in relationships, not even in exams, not even in games. They don't let you cheat anywhere."

Likewise, Singapore singer-songwriter Krysta Joy D'Souza puts a definition to the term in her own Stitch video: "'Justifiable' is defined as an action, a situation, an emotion or an idea that is acceptable or correct because there are good reasons for it."

Being in a toxic relationship, not getting the love one desires from it, or looking for that fulfilment outside of the relationship are "not good reasons for it", she states.

Since it was posted on Thursday, her video has been viewed 68,200 times.

Though situations can be complex, Krysta points out that if something can be justified by having a motive or reason, then everything would be fair game.

"I think we live in a day and age where everyone is so afraid to have morals and to cast judgement," she adds. "But I think we fail to recognise that there is judgement that comes from a place of love, and that is necessary.

"If my friend were to cheat, I (one) hundred per cent would judge them. And not because I think I'm better than them, but because I think they're better than that."

Other TikTok users have praised her articulate response, especially her opinion that friends should "judge with love".

One said: "My friends give me tough, tough love and I'm a better person for it... Don't think that judgements are inherently coming from a negative place."

TikTok users also began to tag Clarity and the three Hush hosts in the comments of these reaction videos, poking fun at the deletion of the original video and calling for a proper response to the backlash.

One comment sniped: "It's always 'video not available', isn't it."

Another person joked: "Doesn't mean you have a mic means you can start a podcast."

CLIP 'MISINTERPRETED DUE TO LACK OF CONTEXT'

On Thursday, Clarity posted a new excerpt from the episode to TikTok, this time addressing "what you would do if you found out that your friend was cheating in their relationship".

In this clip, a direct continuation from the previous one, Hazelle describes a male friend who is involved with a married woman and how she has tried to talk him out of it.

The previous clip had been taken down to "avoid further misunderstanding" due to a lack of context, the brand said.

A note from the production designer in the comments read: "In response to the previous video that was taken down, we want to clarify that we're not justifying that cheating or having an affair is okay.

"In the full episode, we delved into several different perspectives and we hope that you can give the full episode (on YouTube or Spotify) a chance for the full context.

"As always, we hope to provide a safe space for a healthy discussion regarding the topic."

But netizens were unimpressed.

"From Azura's mouth: 'I think it's justifiable in some situations, but that still doesn't make it right,'" quoted one comment. "Gurl, the statement says a lot."

Responding to the new clip, others commented that Hazelle should have cut her friend off rather than "be accessory to (his) crimes".

In the rest of the full episode, the hosts go on to discuss the fallout of cheating or being cheated on, how a couple or individual can move on from a cheating incident, and how one can avoid being tempted to cheat.

SOME AGREE CHEATING IS 'NOT BLACK AND WHITE'

Echoing Azura, who notes in the full episode that cheating or coming clean about it is "really not black and white", some online users seemed to agree with the hosts' assertion that cheating might be justifiable in certain situations.

On the Reddit forum site, someone shared a story of a friend who had been in a "rather toxic relationship". This friend then met someone and was later physically intimate with the third party before the "actual breakup" with the person in the first relationship.

"In most cases, cheating is horrible," he acknowledged. "But this is the one instance where I'm glad(?) cheating happened?"

In another instance, a TikTok user said: "Not that I support cheating but I do think that there are some situations where it's justifiable. Sometimes a person is threatened physically or mentally (and) hence (is) unable to leave the relationship."

One Reddit user said: "It's easy to pontificate when you have no skin in the game."

The full episode of the podcast received a few positive reviews on YouTube for its representation of the many "dimensions of cheating".

However, even defenders of this opinion felt that as a segment that took up less than four of the entire 36 minutes, the discussion on whether cheating is justifiable should not have been the focal point of the episode.

QUESTIONABLE FRAMING OF THE TOPIC

To begin with, online users argued, Clarity's choice to use this segment as the main soundbite in the promotional material — even naming the episode after it — presented a warped view of the topic, especially for impressionable teenagers.

One TikTok user asked: "Weird question because cheating is just fundamentally wrong, so how can it ever be justified?... More appropriate to ask if it is forgivable, but it doesn't sound as provocative, so 🤷🏻‍♀️."

A Reddit user remarked: "Podcasts are typically geared towards controversy so (they) bring in an audience. If they said cheating was not acceptable, they would not be invited for anything else."

But for TikTok user "vanillabbt", Clarity's sizeable audience here was what had led her to film a reaction video.

"I'm not here to judge," she wrote in a comment. "All I'm saying is you shouldn't be promoting this opinion online, especially to youths."

Other listeners took issue with how the hosts appeared to downplay recent high-profile cases of infidelity such as that of Mr Fulmer and Maroon 5 frontman Adam Levine, who was also in September accused of sending flirty messages to multiple women.

Both of these men had been accused of markedly intentional dalliances lasting a year or more — hence the outrage that Germaine had deemed too "harsh".

One YouTube user chided: "Can you guys explore the cases in detail (rather) than just take what's on the surface?" 

A word of advice from Krysta? "And please, review your podcast footage before putting it online."

ORIGINAL TIKTOK CLIP TRANSCRIPT

Germaine: Okay. Do you girls think cheating is ever justifiable or acceptable?

Hazelle: (Sighs.) Well, I don't want to put a hard "no" to this question. In certain cases where relationships are toxic and people cheat, then I think... in a certain way, it's justifiable? Because you can't get love from that relationship, and that's why you turn to other means.

Germaine: Ah. (Hazelle: Right?) What do you think, Azura?

Azura: Agreed. Agreed, agreed. (Germaine: Okay.) I think there are situations that make it justifiable, but... maybe it still doesn't make it right. (Hazelle: Right. Yes.)

Germaine: I mean, of course the whole concept of cheating is something that... morally may not be right, but the reasons for it may be justifiable.

Hazelle: Mm. Azura: Mm, yup.

Germaine: I have friends who have been with married men, and... the thing is that they are not happy in their situation, the man who's married. (Azura: Okay.) Right? Sometimes they even have kids, you know, it happens. And as a friend, right, I would never judge my friend for, you know, doing something like that, or entering into a situation like that. All I would do is support her. So I think, like, no one is above this, like, moral high ground, right? 'Oh, I judge this person and this person.' Which is why, when the whole Ned Fulmer thing came out, I mean, I do think people were a bit harsh on him.